Plus, what disbanding a police department could look like, a useful infographic, and the oddly entertaining re-enactment you didn't know you needed (and a brand new format!)
Honestly so happy that this article touched on the phenomenon of cancel culture as I was just discussing this with my roommate using this exact example. While I think each case is subjective, I do believe in personal growth and the ability for human beings to redeem themselves through concrete actions (as opposed to empty apologies). Maybe every moment isn’t a “teachable“ moment (Why should the burden of education fall on people of color when they already have so much to bear?) but every moment can be a learnable one, as well as a chance for someone to own their transgressions and demonstrate better thoughts and actions. I feel like perhaps my response is influenced by own White privilege, as having the ability to give a second chance is a privilege in itself. That being said, I’m not sure canceling someone without the chance for that person to change and respond correctly is constructive to creating a more just and equal future.
I really liked what you said here, "maybe every moment isn't a teachable one, but every moment can be a learnable one." I see your point and agree that most people deserve a second chance, but I suppose the question is, a second chance at what, exactly? The only way to get "canceled" is by existing in the public eye in the first place, and by choosing to exist in that space you're naturally going to face more scrutiny on a regular basis. I can understand retracting support from someone whose values come to light in a way that don't align with your own (the first thing I think of is Girl With No Job-- I unfollowed her back when her racist Tweets first came out in 2018 and was a shocked that more people didn't follow suit), but that doesn't mean that person can't change/grow/be given a second chance, it just means they won't be experiencing their changes in the public eye. I wonder, can you really grow/change while being fully immersed in the world of social media, especially when you have a huge following? THE QUESTIONS!
I think as a brand stand point staying silent is worse at a time like this but being genuine is key. It's been very interesting to see big companies taking a stance and to see how it is being received. For example, no one is canceling Nike because they have been behind the cause since day 1. But for the other brands who never publicly supported these issues, I find the most successful ones are the ones who talk about still learning, about change from within, and apologizing if employees have felt wronged. But it is like you said, tough to navigate when these can all seem like empty promises.
It's an interesting point that I hadn't even considered about Nike, especially, because they haven't always been on the "right" side of every issue (I remember them getting a lot of flack after an op-ed was published in the New York Times from one of their female athletes who didn't get ANY paid maternity leave). But I guess the difference is that Nike is mostly known as the sort of company willing to take a stand, even when the stance is unpopular. It's the classic showing vs. telling.... and I'm ready for more companies to stop telling us what they're doing (with boring, lifeless jargon) and start showing us. I can't wait to check back in eight months and see if any of these companies are talking about diversity and inclusion when it is no longer the flavor of the week topic!
I have been thinking a lot about the idea of cancel culture recently and how I would come off if I were to be in the public eye today. I am combing through my social media and have found definitely cringe-worthy posts. I am not sure if time is the answer but I would like more of a discussion on how someone has grown instead of a copy-and-paste apology on their social media platform. Loved seeing that in the article and will start a conversation with my friends in the coming weeks about it.
Also, very interested to see if the results from Camden will continue and if the same positive effects can happen in other communities!
I literally looked through my Facebook albums just out of curiosity from high school, too. I think that more people are starting to realize they can admit they’ve changed and I think the genuine ones are standing out a bit more.
I did the same thing last night! It's tricky, because on one hand, people do change and grow up, and society's tolerance for speaking in certain ways changes, too (if you go back and watch "Friends," there are several plot lines that would never fly now, like when Ross freaks out about his son playing with dolls or how Monica is constantly fat-shamed). But on the other hand, there's got to be a degree of accountability. I think the more tactical first step is scrubbing our social media accounts proactively, and also honestly reflecting on the things we posted in the past that make us uncomfortable now, even if they never come into the public eye.
Wow that infographic on social media posting is incredibly powerful. I’ve found myself feeling like I’m screaming to the void, re-sharing the same posts all of me and my somewhat equally-educated friends are sharing. Feeling a bit pointless, guilty of virtue signaling, and repetitive. But there are a sub-sect of each of our followers that don’t share our views fully, and those who are more radical and informed that teach us as well, and so on. Thanks for sharing this!
I feel the same way, Holly. Ever since the 2016 election/the past four years of insane polarization I've felt my social circles getting tighter and more homogenous, and a lot of time it seems as though I'm only conversing with people who believe the same things I do. I'd never considered the sub-sects of people who exist in our circles, even if they only exist on social media or in a loose setting, but it made me feel...oddly calm? Less like I'm preaching to the choir? And also, I LOVED the part about not trying to inform those who know MORE than you in order to prove yourself...all good things to remember!
These questions bleed into each other and are in a way the underlying questions we all should be asking ourselves right now. It's a hard time for everyone, but we all handle it in different ways. Are you happy with who you are and what you bring to society, do you think you need to change, how can you change, and is that change genuine... When we're stuck at home in our apartments, at our parents houses, etc., does that create an environment for change? Do we have to accept what we can't be doing, how we aren't growing, and wait for things to be back to "normal" (which may never happen) or do we find alternatives to allow us to continue to grow, to continue to change and evolve as people. The latter seems to be the only possibility - but it's hard to figure out what that looks like. On a tangent here but I do think people change. You should be questioned for the things you've done in your past, but I don't think you should be ostracized for them. Meaningful conversation only happens when it's not an attack on someone. How are we supposed to learn from our mistakes of the past if "being held accountable" for previous actions so often just results in people being publicly shamed. Hold people accountable after you've addressed the issue and still see no change (empty promises or staying silent). So I guess my thinking is that people should be given a second chance. But if they're lucky enough to get a second chance, an empty promise or staying silent will lead to them being ostracized anyway. They are both just as damaging in my opinion.
I really loved what you said here: "or do we find alternatives to allow us to continue to grow, to continue to change and evolve as people?" I've heard so many people say things like "when things return to normal," and I'm sure I've said it at some point, too. But normal is gone, I think, and we have to figure out how to operate in this space. It is much harder to be progressive or of any use when you're situationally forced to sit still, but maybe sitting still is the most progressive thing we can do right now. It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite phrases, "still waters run deep."
I always look forward to your newsletters! The "Note from the Editor" this week really hit home, as you were able to put words to questions I've also been struggling with the past few weeks. Thank you for always being vulnerable and sharing your thoughts. I know the idea of "avoiding friends" is a ridiculous one, but it's so common. With everything going on, I rarely have the mental capacity to sit in my own thoughts vs. actually converse with others, so that made me laugh and made me feel a little less crazy :) With a constant stream of news hitting our phones and feeds 24/7, "That's So Interesting" is content I actually look forward to, so thank you again<3
I'm so glad I'm not alone in the "avoiding friends" department. I've started a new rule for myself, if I text/call a friend and they don't respond, I'm asusming they need space, and I'll never guilt them about thier sielcne that I might've a few motnhs ago. Thanks for reading along!
I am starting to realize that cancel culture is like canceling a TV show in some ways. Even if it's canceled, the show will still have fans and those fans can still watch the show and include others to create new fans. If their support gets big enough, it might even get picked up by a new network. Canceling a person doesn't change what they did or shift the opinion of their die-hard fans. It's not the most effective way to handle things. Especially when the canceling itself seems to create more die-hards who are now another step further from being reached for actual discussion and potential growth.
Love a good analogy, and this one is spot on. Canceling something in one place (re: one corner of the internet) doesn't mean it's canceled everywhere, and when it IS canceled, another group is emboldened. I do wonder, though, does an alternative exist between a lifeless apology on Instagram and being canceled? That's the part I keep coming back to-- people want to see others canceled because it feels like the only just punishment for particular transgressions, especially when the alternative is an apology that sounds like every other apology. Obviously, long term, sustained change is the solution, but I'm wondering whether there is an in-between step we're missing, something more meaningful than a social media apology, but that less intense than being canceled.
I really loved looking through that info graphic! Today the same artist made one that compares Cancel Culture and White Fragility as a two sided pill. It’s posted on her instagram and really hit home. Cancel culture feels almost like the response to a lot of people being very insecure about their own whiteness and backgrounds/past. I think that a lot of those being pushed out of power do deserve it but it feels sometimes like the company or show is hiding behind that like a “victory” for firing them. It’s a very small piece of the problem. Many brands are putting out some great messages though that feel honest and genuine!
I didn't fully digest that cancel culture/white fragility infographic the first time I saw it, but your explanation just helped me understand it better, and also made me go "oooofffff, I'm uncomfortable," (presumably because I'm feeling a little insecure about my own whiteness). It does feeling like pushing out a disgraced leader/figurehead is a bit more symbolic than anything, and I hope that doesn't become the go-to solve for organizations. Even if it is warranted, and it often is, the core issues go so much deeper than one person, and will take a lot more change than a single firing to fix. What brands do you think are putting out the most honest/genuine messaging right now?
I agree that it's sad to see this idea of "fixing" a problem by firing someone but not changing anything else. It's the easy way out and won't improve things without further action.
Honestly so happy that this article touched on the phenomenon of cancel culture as I was just discussing this with my roommate using this exact example. While I think each case is subjective, I do believe in personal growth and the ability for human beings to redeem themselves through concrete actions (as opposed to empty apologies). Maybe every moment isn’t a “teachable“ moment (Why should the burden of education fall on people of color when they already have so much to bear?) but every moment can be a learnable one, as well as a chance for someone to own their transgressions and demonstrate better thoughts and actions. I feel like perhaps my response is influenced by own White privilege, as having the ability to give a second chance is a privilege in itself. That being said, I’m not sure canceling someone without the chance for that person to change and respond correctly is constructive to creating a more just and equal future.
I really liked what you said here, "maybe every moment isn't a teachable one, but every moment can be a learnable one." I see your point and agree that most people deserve a second chance, but I suppose the question is, a second chance at what, exactly? The only way to get "canceled" is by existing in the public eye in the first place, and by choosing to exist in that space you're naturally going to face more scrutiny on a regular basis. I can understand retracting support from someone whose values come to light in a way that don't align with your own (the first thing I think of is Girl With No Job-- I unfollowed her back when her racist Tweets first came out in 2018 and was a shocked that more people didn't follow suit), but that doesn't mean that person can't change/grow/be given a second chance, it just means they won't be experiencing their changes in the public eye. I wonder, can you really grow/change while being fully immersed in the world of social media, especially when you have a huge following? THE QUESTIONS!
I think as a brand stand point staying silent is worse at a time like this but being genuine is key. It's been very interesting to see big companies taking a stance and to see how it is being received. For example, no one is canceling Nike because they have been behind the cause since day 1. But for the other brands who never publicly supported these issues, I find the most successful ones are the ones who talk about still learning, about change from within, and apologizing if employees have felt wronged. But it is like you said, tough to navigate when these can all seem like empty promises.
It's an interesting point that I hadn't even considered about Nike, especially, because they haven't always been on the "right" side of every issue (I remember them getting a lot of flack after an op-ed was published in the New York Times from one of their female athletes who didn't get ANY paid maternity leave). But I guess the difference is that Nike is mostly known as the sort of company willing to take a stand, even when the stance is unpopular. It's the classic showing vs. telling.... and I'm ready for more companies to stop telling us what they're doing (with boring, lifeless jargon) and start showing us. I can't wait to check back in eight months and see if any of these companies are talking about diversity and inclusion when it is no longer the flavor of the week topic!
I have been thinking a lot about the idea of cancel culture recently and how I would come off if I were to be in the public eye today. I am combing through my social media and have found definitely cringe-worthy posts. I am not sure if time is the answer but I would like more of a discussion on how someone has grown instead of a copy-and-paste apology on their social media platform. Loved seeing that in the article and will start a conversation with my friends in the coming weeks about it.
Also, very interested to see if the results from Camden will continue and if the same positive effects can happen in other communities!
I literally looked through my Facebook albums just out of curiosity from high school, too. I think that more people are starting to realize they can admit they’ve changed and I think the genuine ones are standing out a bit more.
I did the same thing last night! It's tricky, because on one hand, people do change and grow up, and society's tolerance for speaking in certain ways changes, too (if you go back and watch "Friends," there are several plot lines that would never fly now, like when Ross freaks out about his son playing with dolls or how Monica is constantly fat-shamed). But on the other hand, there's got to be a degree of accountability. I think the more tactical first step is scrubbing our social media accounts proactively, and also honestly reflecting on the things we posted in the past that make us uncomfortable now, even if they never come into the public eye.
Wow that infographic on social media posting is incredibly powerful. I’ve found myself feeling like I’m screaming to the void, re-sharing the same posts all of me and my somewhat equally-educated friends are sharing. Feeling a bit pointless, guilty of virtue signaling, and repetitive. But there are a sub-sect of each of our followers that don’t share our views fully, and those who are more radical and informed that teach us as well, and so on. Thanks for sharing this!
Agreed 100%! She posted a new one today that was also very good regarding cancel culture and white fragility
I feel the same way, Holly. Ever since the 2016 election/the past four years of insane polarization I've felt my social circles getting tighter and more homogenous, and a lot of time it seems as though I'm only conversing with people who believe the same things I do. I'd never considered the sub-sects of people who exist in our circles, even if they only exist on social media or in a loose setting, but it made me feel...oddly calm? Less like I'm preaching to the choir? And also, I LOVED the part about not trying to inform those who know MORE than you in order to prove yourself...all good things to remember!
These questions bleed into each other and are in a way the underlying questions we all should be asking ourselves right now. It's a hard time for everyone, but we all handle it in different ways. Are you happy with who you are and what you bring to society, do you think you need to change, how can you change, and is that change genuine... When we're stuck at home in our apartments, at our parents houses, etc., does that create an environment for change? Do we have to accept what we can't be doing, how we aren't growing, and wait for things to be back to "normal" (which may never happen) or do we find alternatives to allow us to continue to grow, to continue to change and evolve as people. The latter seems to be the only possibility - but it's hard to figure out what that looks like. On a tangent here but I do think people change. You should be questioned for the things you've done in your past, but I don't think you should be ostracized for them. Meaningful conversation only happens when it's not an attack on someone. How are we supposed to learn from our mistakes of the past if "being held accountable" for previous actions so often just results in people being publicly shamed. Hold people accountable after you've addressed the issue and still see no change (empty promises or staying silent). So I guess my thinking is that people should be given a second chance. But if they're lucky enough to get a second chance, an empty promise or staying silent will lead to them being ostracized anyway. They are both just as damaging in my opinion.
I really loved what you said here: "or do we find alternatives to allow us to continue to grow, to continue to change and evolve as people?" I've heard so many people say things like "when things return to normal," and I'm sure I've said it at some point, too. But normal is gone, I think, and we have to figure out how to operate in this space. It is much harder to be progressive or of any use when you're situationally forced to sit still, but maybe sitting still is the most progressive thing we can do right now. It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite phrases, "still waters run deep."
I always look forward to your newsletters! The "Note from the Editor" this week really hit home, as you were able to put words to questions I've also been struggling with the past few weeks. Thank you for always being vulnerable and sharing your thoughts. I know the idea of "avoiding friends" is a ridiculous one, but it's so common. With everything going on, I rarely have the mental capacity to sit in my own thoughts vs. actually converse with others, so that made me laugh and made me feel a little less crazy :) With a constant stream of news hitting our phones and feeds 24/7, "That's So Interesting" is content I actually look forward to, so thank you again<3
I'm so glad I'm not alone in the "avoiding friends" department. I've started a new rule for myself, if I text/call a friend and they don't respond, I'm asusming they need space, and I'll never guilt them about thier sielcne that I might've a few motnhs ago. Thanks for reading along!
I am starting to realize that cancel culture is like canceling a TV show in some ways. Even if it's canceled, the show will still have fans and those fans can still watch the show and include others to create new fans. If their support gets big enough, it might even get picked up by a new network. Canceling a person doesn't change what they did or shift the opinion of their die-hard fans. It's not the most effective way to handle things. Especially when the canceling itself seems to create more die-hards who are now another step further from being reached for actual discussion and potential growth.
Love a good analogy, and this one is spot on. Canceling something in one place (re: one corner of the internet) doesn't mean it's canceled everywhere, and when it IS canceled, another group is emboldened. I do wonder, though, does an alternative exist between a lifeless apology on Instagram and being canceled? That's the part I keep coming back to-- people want to see others canceled because it feels like the only just punishment for particular transgressions, especially when the alternative is an apology that sounds like every other apology. Obviously, long term, sustained change is the solution, but I'm wondering whether there is an in-between step we're missing, something more meaningful than a social media apology, but that less intense than being canceled.
I really loved looking through that info graphic! Today the same artist made one that compares Cancel Culture and White Fragility as a two sided pill. It’s posted on her instagram and really hit home. Cancel culture feels almost like the response to a lot of people being very insecure about their own whiteness and backgrounds/past. I think that a lot of those being pushed out of power do deserve it but it feels sometimes like the company or show is hiding behind that like a “victory” for firing them. It’s a very small piece of the problem. Many brands are putting out some great messages though that feel honest and genuine!
I didn't fully digest that cancel culture/white fragility infographic the first time I saw it, but your explanation just helped me understand it better, and also made me go "oooofffff, I'm uncomfortable," (presumably because I'm feeling a little insecure about my own whiteness). It does feeling like pushing out a disgraced leader/figurehead is a bit more symbolic than anything, and I hope that doesn't become the go-to solve for organizations. Even if it is warranted, and it often is, the core issues go so much deeper than one person, and will take a lot more change than a single firing to fix. What brands do you think are putting out the most honest/genuine messaging right now?
I agree that it's sad to see this idea of "fixing" a problem by firing someone but not changing anything else. It's the easy way out and won't improve things without further action.